0:00 Intro

1:53 Anthony Chaffee On Insulin Resistance

13:00 Comparing Low Carb Diets

17:10 Are Carbohydrates the Problem?

22:58 Glucose Goddess on Fruits

31:04 Blending Fruit Vs. Whole Fruit on Glycemic Response

40:42 Dietary Setup & Choosing Carb Sources

48:55 Low Carb Doc on Dog Poop and Carbohydrates

58:24 How Mike Corrects Metabolic Function w/ Clients

1:09:20 How Long Does it Take to Reverse Pre- Diabetes/ Diabetes

1:13:00 Top 3 Mistakes People Make Coming Into Bioenergetics

Ethan Wright
Welcome to the Mike Fave podcast. I’m your host, Ethan Wright, joined by microwave. On this podcast, we help you make sense of the online health chaos while answering your individual questions along the way. If you have any health trends, topics, or questions you’d like to see us discuss in this podcast, please leave them in the comments below and we’ll make sure to get them answered on future episodes.

Ethan Wright
With that said, in today’s episode, we are going to discuss Doctor Jaffe’s interesting understanding of insulin resistance. Some anti fruit propaganda from the glucose Goddess and Doctor Gundry. And our star of the day is Doctor Siwa’s, and we’re going to get his thoughts on carbohydrates and dog poop. So make sure you stay tuned for the end of that one as well.

Ethan Wright
With that said, Mike, we’ve been getting some questions on the YouTube channel. Where where have you been at? What’s the hiatus if.

Mike Fave
Yeah, I have seen a couple comments on the YouTube channel where people have asked, am I still alive? Where have I been? So these past I would say like 2 to 3 months, we were in the process of trying to get a course together, a program together. And so it was figuring all that out, getting everything under control and and trying to manage both the course and the content production started to get a little tricky.

Mike Fave
So you took a little bit of a hiatus to figure it out. But now we’re back. We’ve gone under control and you know, the we’re ready to start putting out content on a regular basis again.

Ethan Wright
Yeah. I’m excited you’re leaving the the cabin you’re tucked away in in Costa Rica.

Mike Fave
Now we’re definitely not leaving the cabin.

Ethan Wright
Okay. You’re going to stay in there and start making some content.

Mike Fave
Now we’re just going to stay here. No more trips, no more. No more flights, no more new countries. We’re going to we’re going to hunker down, my wife and I and just and just, continue to produce content. And then now with the the new course we’re doing, Q and A seven days a week. So just trying to make sure that I can keep up with that and then run from there.

Ethan Wright
So why don’t we get started and take a look at one of these first clips here and get your thoughts on, jv’s. Jv’s, take on insulin resistance.

Dr. Gundry
If you don’t eat carbohydrates for a very long time, you don’t produce a body of, of insulin to be ready for that next hit of carbs. Right? So that’s why people say that if you go keto, you actually get insulin resistance, total garbage. It’s all these studies, you know, what does the studies show? They can conclude whatever they want.

Dr. Gundry
It doesn’t actually mean it’s true. What that study was is they looked at your glucose tolerance. I did just to my a can of soda. And then they look at their glucose and their blood sugar. It all goes way up. It’s because they’re insulin resistant. Well, there are other things that can actually do that besides insulin resistance. And one of them is is they they haven’t preloaded their insulin.

Dr. Gundry
So in fact, they’re actually more sensitive to insulin because, you know, they haven’t built up this resistance. It’s just it takes a bit of time for them to produce that insulin. Whereas if you do that for a couple days, the body goes, okay, this idiot’s eating carbs again. And so you actually start preloading insulin. And then when you eat carbs or drink that soda, just bam, slams it down.

Ethan Wright
If that idiot starts eating carbs again.

Mike Fave
Yeah, there’s your body.

Ethan Wright
Just calls you an idiot. So what is this guy doing?

Mike Fave
There’s so much, there’s so much. There’s so many things in this clip that I. That are just like, there’s so many implied things in here that are just fundamentally off that it’s kind of it’s a crazy that is even going out and saying it just like so blatantly like that, like, look up what you’re talking about before you go and speak about it.

Mike Fave
Because when you look inside the research, if you are on a low carbohydrate diet or a ketogenic diet or carnivore diet or something like this, when you are primarily burning fatty acids in general, like this is very clear across research, you are going to be a bit you’re going to be more insulin, just you’re not going to be able to oxidize carbohydrates as well.

Mike Fave
You’re gonna have a shifted respiratory quotient. You’re basically gonna be in a state where you’re oxidizing mainly mainly fatty acids and in oxidizing fatty acids drives, insulin resistance. Is it pathologic insulin resistance that you would typically see with diabetes and stuff like this? Not necessarily, but it is. There is still a state of insulin resistance that is being developed, which is why when people come out of fast or people come out of low carbohydrate eating, they have this, this, this insulin resistance.

Mike Fave
And I don’t think it has necessarily much to do with this body of insulin. Like, to be fair, I haven’t heard that before. I don’t know, that was the first time I heard that. Yeah. I don’t even know what that means. Like it’s just this body of insulin. It’s like he talks about preloading. So I guess his assumption is that the pancreas is just because you’re not eating carbohydrates is not making insulin in general.

Mike Fave
But I don’t think that that’s necessarily the case either. I think it’s more of a function of primarily, driving fatty acid oxidation at the cellular level, which is making you less able for that period of time. It’s a normal thing to oxidize carbohydrate. And then you upregulate hormones like glucagon, which also directly drive insulin resistance on purpose.

Mike Fave
It’s this is supposed to happen in these different states. So it’s there’s just like I don’t even know if he’s like reading the papers. You just like straight up dismissing them. And it’s like.

Ethan Wright
Isn’t there research suggesting that do it like glucose in the taking in glucose makes you more insulin sensitive. Yes.

Mike Fave
Because the more carbohydrate that you oxidize, the better you are oxidizing carbohydrate. In general, there’s a difference between being metabolic impaired and being of like a normal metabolic function in the metabolically impaired state. Just throwing carbohydrate in doesn’t necessarily fix the metabolic impairment by itself. Although there are studies that I’ve talked about before where you see, increasing carbohydrate percentage in the diet actually increases insulin sensitivity and the oxidation of glucose.

Mike Fave
So if you push the substrate forward more with glucose, you can actually use it better over time. But in general, if you have metabolic impairment, there’s a lot of things going on with prediabetes, type two diabetes, fatty liver where essentially the mitochondria is having, problems oxidizing the different fuels effectively. Or there’s an issue with insulin signaling because of a buildup of fat inside the cell, or things are being shifted towards glycolysis.

Mike Fave
So there’s a general metabolic issue going on in these states that leads to, problems using both fats and also carbohydrates in general. And going on a ketogenic diet can actually improve metabolic function for people. But it’s not necessarily because it’s like just by itself, oxidizing fats is increasing insulin sensitivity. Not having carbs is increasing in some sensitivity.

Mike Fave
It’s that when you go on the ketogenic diet, there’s a there’s a variety of things that go on, including the increase satiety factors and weight loss. And it’s actually difficult to parse out if a lot of the the benefits of the ketogenic diet are just that. It’s really good at inducing weight loss for people. And then on top of that, there’s a shift.

Mike Fave
And in, diet composition. Right. So you’re shifting towards, better options from, from a dietary perspective in terms of protein sources that sources. And then usually there’s a minimization of problematic carb sources, which people tend to think. And we’ll see this in a clip with the low carb doc where he’s like, or even when you’re talking about, Doctor Gundry or the clip that we’re going to talk about with the glucose.

Mike Fave
God, it’s like they’re comparing oranges and apples to Coke or to donuts. It’s like it’s not the same comparison. They’re not the same thing. They’re not even close to the same thing. It’s it’s literally it doesn’t even make sense to compare them as the same thing in terms of their effects on physiology. And we’ll we’ll talk about studies with this.

Mike Fave
So it’s going keto can lead to massive weight loss. And then the weight loss itself can lead to changes in metabolic function directly. And even in studies just losing weight, whether you’re doing keto or you’re not doing keto, you’re just adjusting the diet in general for weight loss, you see improvements in insulin sensitivity. You see improvements in fasting glucose, in type two diabetics, in pre diabetics, in people who have obesity, impaired glucose tolerance, etc..

Mike Fave
So there’s you have keto has these does have this benefit for people. If it’s done effectively compared to what they’re doing and they lose a bunch of weight. And also you make sure you don’t lose a bunch of muscle tissue. But that doesn’t mean that driving fatty acid oxidation doesn’t necessarily doesn’t drive, insulin resistance, because it does.

Mike Fave
The more if you have a very low carbohydrate intake and you’re oxidizing primarily fats. Even as a healthy person in general, you are going to be more insulin resistant as a rule. That is how this stuff kind of works. So I don’t know if he hasn’t read the papers or he doesn’t get it, but I don’t know what the deal is.

Ethan Wright
Yeah. And I think, like you see, with a lot of your clients too, that there may be that initial phase where someone removes carbohydrates and all the problematic foods in the metabolic numbers do improve. Right? But if you stay on that sort of restricted diet for a while, doesn’t the like fasting insulin and blood glucose will start to creep up, right?

Ethan Wright
And that’s glucagon that’s responsible for that or the stress hormones.

Mike Fave
Yeah. So basically let’s put a timeline together. So say you have somebody who’s obese who’s type two diabetic and say they go keto and they lose a bunch of weight and then all their metabolic markers improve. That happens. Well it happens. I’ve seen it happen like I’ve experienced it myself. And I went keto who lost a ton of weight very quickly.

Mike Fave
Also the the other thing too, about ketones, like the first week, you’re going to probably lose waterway period. So that could, depending on your size, 5 to 10 pounds. And then people see that and like that motivates them to stay on the diet. And that is something that’s also mentioned in the research as a reason that people stay with this.

Mike Fave
So you’re going to see a water weight initially, and then people do actually lose weight on ketogenic diet. And it is relatively comparable to other diets that are adjusted for energy intake. So if you have a higher carb, lower fat diet, they’re somewhat or relatively comparable in terms of their rate of weight loss. It’s not a massive difference between them.

Mike Fave
So whether you’re doing low carb or high carb, you still see that weight loss and the weight loss in general, particularly body fat loss, is going to drive improvements across not all metabolic parameters, period. So you can use keto to do it. You could use a higher carb intake to do it, like it’s more about managing your overall energy intake in the dietary structure.

Mike Fave
We can talk. We’ll get into that later in this episode. On what what to do there. So you lose all this weight. Now you’re you’re leaner. Now your metabolic functions drastically improved. And say you stay on this keto this low carb stuff. And then what starts to happen over time? What a lot of people experience, at least not everyone, but a lot of people, especially a lot of people that I’ve worked with personally is they’re fasting.

Mike Fave
Blood glucose starts to rise. So now they’re sitting at like 105, one, ten. And then even people who were type two diabetics, they start to see, oh, my fasting glucose is coming up. My A1 is starting to creep back up again. And even though like my weight is good, and then also if I have any carbohydrates now my blood glucose values jump.

Mike Fave
And that’s again when you are running this lower carbohydrate diet. Number one, insulin signaling super low, you’re running on a lot of fatty acids. And in the fatty acids is like the major fuel source for a lot of the cells of the body. At this point because there’s no carbohydrate coming in. And if you’re ketogenic, your carbon take is so low that your body’s producing ketones to make up for some of that difference for the central nervous system and top of running gluconeogenesis.

Mike Fave
So then you also have this elevated glucagon levels. Or you can have adjustments in the metabolism of glucagon and also changes in growth hormone adrenaline, cortisol stuff like this. Lowering a thyroid function. And those things will drive will drive the fatty acid oxidation. They’re doing that on purpose. And so that leads you to a state where you’re not as good at managing carbohydrates in general.

Mike Fave
So you started with metabolic dysfunction, went on keto, lost a bunch of weight. Things improved. And as you continue with the keto situation, that doesn’t necessarily continue to endlessly improve insulin sensitivity. If anything, if you’re lean and healthy and you’re on a keto diet, your insulin sensitivity is likely going to be worse overall. Now, the thing that trips people off is they go and get their labs and I’m like, oh, my hemoglobin A1, C is better.

Mike Fave
It’s like, yes, if you’re looking at a 90 day average of your blood glucose values, which is what a hemoglobin A1, C is to a large extent. And it also works. It’s also a measure of flux of metabolites through glycolysis because that’s what drives a glycation products. And you’re not you don’t have carbs and you’re not going to have that flux through like all this.

Mike Fave
You’re not going to have the ups and downs of blood glucose, and then your average blood glucose values are going to be lower and your A1 c is going to be lower. But now we’re looking at a proxy marker to determine insulin sensitivity and not directly measuring what’s going on within some sensitivity. And so that’s where we have to be careful because then you can still see fasting blood.

Mike Fave
People start to elevate. And even though insulin’s low it’s like yeah, insulin is going to be low because you don’t have any carbohydrate coming in. You’re not having it any insulin signaling. But maybe glucagon is on the higher side because you’re relying on the glucagon to maintain your blood glucose values. And that’s where you’re seeing those, those, those higher fasting blood glucose values.

Mike Fave
And at the glucagon itself drives insulin resistance. Again, there’s a difference between a pathological and resistant state. And then a physiologic insulin resistance state. And so in that circumstance what winds up happening and most times that I’ve seen is the person is like, all right, well, I’m tired of this keto stuff anyway. Maybe they either like they get to this cross or it’s like I’m either going to go carnivore or I’m going to go do this bioenergetics stuff.

Mike Fave
And then when they do carnivore, eventually the shift in the bioenergetics. And then from there, when you first come to bioenergetics, you get into this like milk and orange juice and ice cream and whatever else. And then a lot of people don’t do well with that. And you kind of just take taking your keto or carnivore diet and just start to add in a bit more carbs, which is basically what Paul Saladino did with, with his animal based diet is it’s keto slash carnivore.

Mike Fave
So it’s like beef and eggs and and beef tallow and stuff like this. Like you still eats pretty high fat. And he’s added fruit and fruit juice and like potentially some starches and honey and stuff like this on board. And so that’s basically the only shift that happened for me. That also was the Eve like way back in 20, I don’t know, what was it, 2018 or 20, 2016 or so somewhere in that time frame.

Mike Fave
That’s what worked the best for me as well. Although my fat intake is probably a bit like quite a bit lower than Paul’s, like I think in some videos, like.

Ethan Wright
Paul’s pretty High. Yeah, I was like, I saw he was like 300. Yeah, yeah, yeah it was I was kind of surprised.

Mike Fave
Yeah. For me it’s like 100 and I know yours is like well like 8000.

Ethan Wright
80 to 100. Yeah.

Mike Fave
And then we just have like you’re just like your carbs, your fats, your energy substrate. So we’re just kind of you just figuring out which mix is going to work better for you overall. But when you’re lean, when your lean and metabolic function is working well, like you can get away with a lot of different mixes of of carbs, the fats.

Mike Fave
And that’s why you’re seeing this, Paul, that like 175 or 150 200g of fat, I mean like 100 for me. I wouldn’t do that. Well, that high the fat intake I prefer to have more carbon take and I feel better with that. So I shift to that. So there’s also that personal perspective here.

Ethan Wright
And it probably depends on your contacts too. Like if you were coming from, if you’re coming into it like a pre-diabetic or diabetic state, it’s would it be better to like modulate the fat intake, maybe lower to start with, to help support oxidizing glucose as you’re trying to bring the cars back on board?

Mike Fave
Yeah. So that’s I what what I try to do that’s a great question. What I try to do is I try to stepwise adjust things. So if you’re coming in from low carb or carnivore, the number one carnivore is worse than keto person. In my personal perspective, because with carnivore you just like a lot of people, you’re not.

Mike Fave
You have this really high protein intake. And then what winds up happening is you really drive gluconeogenesis with that set up versus on a Akito set up, you’re producing the ketones, and the ketones burn a little bit more like the like glucose like they’re oxidation is a little bit closer to glucose. It’s like you have fats in this side and you glucose over here.

Mike Fave
And then ketones are shifted like a little bit closer to glucose. And you also don’t have as much ammonia production and stuff like this from converting all the amino acids that you’re taking in with the high protein consumption to glucose, because you’re going to do that, you’re going to oxidize some of it. And so fundamentally, I think that that’s the ketones maybe a little bit better overall.

Mike Fave
But then again like then there’s nutrient dense stuff. There’s this smashing fat.

Ethan Wright
Yeah. So you’re saying keto is maybe slightly better than carnivore on like the spectrum of low carb diets. But it’s funny, like the typical route that you would see someone take when they get into the restrictive dieting is to start with something maybe like keto, and then maybe they’re experiencing some symptoms and sort of the advocates in the space you start to like, go further and further until you wind up all the way out.

Ethan Wright
Carnivore, which is probably like the worst out of all the restrictive diets, and probably making you like the most insulin resistance, like you’re saying, because you don’t have the ketones necessarily, and it’s like the gluconeogenesis that’s coming from all the protein and whatnot. Right?

Mike Fave
Yeah. And it’s still it’s still there’s pros and cons to each of the diets because if you depending on how you keto, then, you know, if you’re if you’re a keto diet just like I’m just going to eat tons of dairy fat and have like a minor amount of some lean muscle meat, you’re probably not going to have a lot of nutrient density, and you probably going to run a lot of micronutrient deficiencies, especially if you’re doing like keto carnivore, you’re not really having any plant foods or anything like this at all, then you’re probably going to be in a circumstance where you’re creating micronutrient deficiencies.

Mike Fave
So there’s there’s pros and cons to I think all of them. But I think fundamentally, that they, they do make people insulin resistant in general. And then but if you have pathologic and some resistance from metabolic dysfunction, you will see those improve on those diets. But I think part a large part of that is that people are just losing weight, improving diet quality, and they have a way higher satiety.

Mike Fave
Intake is protein intake drastically increases, fat intake drastically increases, and you’re basically just satiated all day long. And you also do get higher nutrient density than I think you would see in a typical standard American diet. Because if your breakfast is like six eggs and some butter, and then maybe you have like some, some beef or liver or something with that, like that’s way more nutrient dense than a bowl of Cheerios or a bagel or something like this, which most of the nutrition in that is just from fortification, which is not really even the ideal sources of those nutrition.

Mike Fave
So, yeah. Well, you feel better doing that other option. Yes. But I still I still think ultimately what you’ll find is and ultimately what you’ll find is that like, it’s not I don’t think it’s a great long term strategy. And I don’t think that carbohydrates are fundamentally the problem, which is what’s implied with all this type of stuff, like what Doctor Jaffe is saying, you know, you know, your body is calling you an idiot for having carbohydrates.

Mike Fave
It’s like implying that if you have carbohydrates, you’re an idiot. And it’s like, I don’t think that that’s the case. It’s even that goes hand in hand with this, like carb addiction stuff that we see. You’re just a carb addict. And it’s like, I don’t think that that’s really the case. And I also as an example, I have clients who have lost over 100 pounds eating carbohydrate, and it was more just setting up the diet appropriately for micronutrient density, for making sure they get enough protein and diet.

Mike Fave
They’re not even on a super low fat diet. They’re just their total energy intake is managed, which a lot of the keto carnivore diets can tend to lead to automatic caloric deficits and things like this just because there’s so much satiety. And also people are doing like omad or two meals a day, or if or whatever else with those diets, it’s like, yeah, you’re just in huge deficits, you’re going to shred body fat off and your diet quality drastically improved.

Mike Fave
So I think there’s a there’s a lot of that. And then there are some effects of ketones as well. And they’re all changes in hormonal signaling. So there are things going on. I don’t not that I think that they don’t work. I just think that there’s some downsides. We have to talk about them. And I also don’t think demonizing carbohydrates is necessarily the solution either.

Ethan Wright
In your point about the carbohydrates, like how many times you hear someone like, smash a ton of donuts and then feel like terrible after? There you go. That’s sugar. Like it is like the laundry list of things that comes, like with the sugar. And they’re like, yeah, it’s the sugar. It’s not like the fortified stuff. And like whatever else is added in the seed oils and everything.

Ethan Wright
It’s like, that sugar really wiped me out, man, I feel terrible.

Mike Fave
Well, that’s. Yeah, that’s the thing. There’s a there’s a lot of, I think, conflation around what the actual causes. And I think that even if you, you know, people have the whole ancestral perspective. But even if you look at like if I was to pull up here a donut in chronometer, so let’s say, cake donut or a cake donut, chocolate frosted plain.

Mike Fave
So say you have one, let’s say like medium donut. So it’s 38. Like from a I’m going to pull it up here on the screen and share. So if we look at one donut, one medium donut, what we see is that it’s 38g of sugar. It’s probably added sugar but then it’s 13g of fat. So from a caloric perspective, it’s 40% fat, 50% 55% carbs, and basically zero protein, like 5% protein, there’s not really any micronutrients in it.

Mike Fave
And then the fats that are in here, I mean, they’re saying it’s monounsaturated and unsaturated only 7.6 with poly at 1.3, but if they’re using soybean oil or if they’re using canola oil or sunflower oil and anything like this, like that fatty acid composition going to be different. And that’s not to mention the changes like the other things that are in the donut as far as additives go.

Mike Fave
And so you so you basically like is this just sugar, is this comparable to a glass of orange juice. Not even close. And like we’ll see that in the in the research if you look at orange juice orange juice. Yeah. It’s just sugar from a macro perspective 24g of sugar, it’s 87% carbs. It’s saying it’s 7% father’s that there’s not even I doubt there’s even one gram of fat in the orange juice.

Mike Fave
The micronutrient profiles better. There’s not really a high amount of omega six is you get a much better potassium intake. You get vitamin C, it’s not, you know, one glass is not massively better, but the vitamins and minerals that you’re getting in the donut, like iron or folate or any of the B vitamins here, these are fortified stuff.

Mike Fave
This is fortified stuff. So it’s not even like, you know, it’s not even the naturally occurring vitamins that you’re seeing with, okay, you get a 20% fully on the on the glass of OJ, almost 185% of your vitamin C, and then almost 15% of your potassium, 10% of your copper, then that’s not to mention all the polyphenol compounds that are coming with this as well.

Mike Fave
So it’s a massive difference. There’s way more things, there’s way more components. And also the OJ is not coming with, the OJ is not coming with any of the crappy additives that you would see inside the donut and industrial components and ultra processed components. So it’s a world of a difference. And I think that just, you know, just conflating it with sugar or carbs, I think is a misdirection.

Mike Fave
And I think it also like people saying like, oh, keto, the keto doesn’t work or ketosis. And that’s like, I think people are also seeing benefits from the I just don’t think that’s that you have to do. I think that there’s a like, we can look at this middle ground and we can exist in a sport and say, we know that keto does work to for people to lose weight and improve metabolic markers, but we also know that you could do it with carbohydrates in your diet.

Mike Fave
And we also know that in general, like if you’re doing whether it’s animal based or a like a reasonable bioenergetics diet, or it’s even like a reasonable keto diet or carnivore diet, like there’s a lot of benefits to them. And there’s some pros and cons for each one. And then trying to figure out like what’s like, what’s the best way to set up the diet for you and not which dietary camp do you identify with?

Mike Fave
I think that’s less important. It doesn’t matter. It’s just like what’s going to get you your outcomes long term is that you don’t become one of the cardiovascular disease or obesity or diabetes statistics. And then also like not creating the shame for people where it’s like, well, if you eat carbs, you’re an addict. It’s like, that’s not helpful.

Mike Fave
I don’t think that’s helpful for people. And I also think like creates this misdirection and, and creates fear for people. And but you know, by the time you like when you’re talking with somebody on a call or I’m talking to somebody on calls, by the time where we’re talking to them, they’re like, I have no idea what to eat.

Mike Fave
Like I literally have no idea what to eat. That’s because of this stuff.

Ethan Wright
Yeah. So what you’re saying is there’s no PubMed research showing that your body calls you an idiot when you start to eat carbohydrate.

Mike Fave
No, no, I haven’t I haven’t seen that in the studies. But you know, maybe it’ll come in the future.

Ethan Wright
But okay, well let’s jump in to the next clip then. Here. Okay. Awesome. So who’s up next? Glucose goddess.

Mike Fave
Yeah. We have our, our, glucose goddess is a favorite. Yeah.

Ethan Wright
We just making regular appearances on the channel on the podcast.

Mike Fave
Going to be a regular for us. Yeah. And then we have Doctor Gundry as well. It’s, some interesting thoughts here. Okay. I’m going to share my screen and we’ll take a look at this clip. How dare I tell people not to have a smoothie. Oh yeah. Because what a wonderful way to get your fruits in.

The Glucose Goddess
First of all, people identify some fruit with something being natural. They’re like, fruit is natural. So it’s good for you. The food that we eat today is not natural.

Mike Fave
Oh, thank you for saying.

The Glucose Goddess
Yeah. So the oranges we find today, the bananas, the strawberries, they’re completely different from the ancestral pieces of fruit we might find in the past. So for example, if you look at an ancestral banana, it’s very small. It’s full of seeds, it’s tart. It’s not sweet. The fruit we find today is not natural. However, if you want to eat something sweet, a piece of whole fruit is still the best thing to choose because whole fruit contains fiber and water.

The Glucose Goddess
Now the problem arises when you denature that piece of fruit. Bingo, right? You smoothie, it’s. You pulverize the fiber particles you juice it, you remove the fiber entirely. Then you’re just concentrating the sugar molecules. And it doesn’t matter if those sugar molecules came from an orange, or if they came from a beetroot and are in a can of Coca-Cola to your body.

The Glucose Goddess
It’s the same molecules.

Mike Fave
That was good. Oh man.

Ethan Wright
It’s just funny to me that she’s like comparing. Do you see in other videos she compares like a soda to fruit right? But then on this video in particular, she’s nitpicking ancestral fruit versus fruit we have now. I mean, it’s not even the same. It’s not even close. But she’s so willing in other videos to draw the line, like, you know, between soda and fruit as well, which is like as the same thing trying to position as the same thing.

Ethan Wright

Yeah.

Mike Fave
It’s just there’s so much there’s like we can even look at the difference between a can of Coke. And even if you were to compare juice, like the only thing that is similar between them is that they, they have sugar. That’s it. And it’s like, does your body handle the sugar from, from like sucrose versus the sugar from orange juice differently?

Mike Fave
If you were to just extract out all the sugar molecules, sure. Like it’s still going to process it relatively similarly. But that’s a completely fallacious argument. It’s not even remotely logical and not even worth having a conversation about. And to any extreme extent, because it’s like, okay, when you look at Coke, what are the additives in Coke? Phosphoric acid, maybe there’s a bit of caffeine.

Mike Fave
You have sucrose, maybe there’s, the caramel color, and then maybe there’s, maybe there’s, like gum Arabic or something like this. I don’t know if that’s in Coke or Pepsi, whatever the additives are. Coke, something, some combination of this stuff. And it’s like, okay, so there’s not really much good things in there. Maybe a little bit of sugar and caffeine is fine.

Mike Fave
And then you have orange juice is like you have vitamins, you have minerals, you have polyphenols, and then you have the carbohydrate. And then the other thing too is like fundamentally you need to have some energy source in your diet, whether that’s fats or sugars, like if those are the two options we have. So you have to have some of them in the diet.

Mike Fave
And even if you have starches like this, the same is like, well, it all breaks down into glucose. It’s like it’s the same thing. Like all of them are breaking down into this thing. But then the other things that are coming with them and how those molecules, how they can the polyphenols, for example, in the orange juice, interact with the microbiome and then interact with the metabolites from the microbiome, feasting on those polyphenols and then those interacting the liver affect how the sugar is processed.

Mike Fave
Then the vitamins and minerals in the orange juice also affect how the sugar is processed. So to draw this erroneous comparison between Coke and orange juice and say it’s all the same thing is like it’s not all the same thing. It’s definitively not the same thing in the research. And they show this at large and like, so it’s like, I don’t know, like where they come up with the claim.

Mike Fave
It’s like, are you reading research about it? Are you just just making stuff up on the fly? Like I’m not really sure.

Ethan Wright
You saw we saw in your previous video on the Glucose Goddess, which everyone can go. I recommend everyone go check out on the microwave channel that, reading the research is probably not her strong suit. It’s just she’s pretty good at marketing, though. You got to give her that.

Mike Fave
I mean, she does do a really good.

Ethan Wright
Job of you. Her website is pretty nice.

Mike Fave
Yeah. I mean, it’s just even with the even with the naturalized fruit argument, it’s like name of food right now that we haven’t hybridized or even an animal product that hasn’t been domesticated. And then like now we have a we have an arbitrary definition of natural. And it’s like, well, it’s not natural because we’ve, we’ve we’ve domesticated the fruit.

Mike Fave
It’s like, okay, we have. So what about wheat? What about corn? What about the way between hybridization, genetically model, genetic modification, whatever else? Like are they now non-natural or like what about, you know, your dairy products. Like we’ve domesticated cows to increase the the the the their meat production if it’s like, different types of beef versus the dairy production or the, the chickens and egg and, egg laying chickens have been domesticated and then also bred to have certain qualities.

Mike Fave
So are they unnatural now. So we can have those. So it’s like just creating an arbitrary definition, a fallacious argument. It’s like, oh, we hybridized the fruit and it has like it has more carbohydrate now. And so that means that implies that it must be bad. It’s like that, you know, that doesn’t pass the sniff test here. As far as like a being, a logical argument of why you shouldn’t have carbohydrate in your diet.

Mike Fave
And also just because something is hybridized or an animal has been domesticated for a product or even and even if you were to take some type of organism and you were to modify something about it, if there was only upside, if there was only upside to do it right, there was no downside. It just increased crop yields drastically increase nutrient production and things like this.

Mike Fave
And there was we know for sure that there’s no downside. Then why would you not do it? That’s the question is like if that. So it’s like this. This distinction makes sense.

Ethan Wright
Yeah. Isn’t that like the entire goal right. Of like ancient civilizations and stuff? Is that better farming practices and increase the yield on food and nutrient density with the soil and everything like that. Now obviously things are not really moving in a great direction in, in today’s world. Right. But like the goal has always been to move in that way.

Mike Fave
Well, and that’s the thing is, like the problem with today’s systems and the food production stuff is that the primary incentive and goal is not health, it’s profits, shelf life, production yields, disease resistance and stuff like this. And like, health is like if it’s probably pretty low on the overall totem pole inside the market. So is it really because we’re using machines to farm?

Mike Fave
Is it because we are hybridizing foods to make them more disease resistant? Is it because we’re domesticating animals to get better production? Those aren’t necessarily the problems. It’s the problem is that like we’re though, to maximize the amount of food production that we get, we’re feeding animals toxic waste and then shoving them in really confined areas and then getting like a lower quality meat and then potentially for a period of time, exposing them to different chemicals and hormones and stuff like this.

Mike Fave
And it’s like that is a problem because it causes issues for the animals health and then for our health as well as a bystander, not necessarily just because we are trying to optimize production or domesticating an animal or hybridizing any food products or stuff like this so that that’s where it’s like, that’s not a logical argument. That’s not like there’s no case there.

Mike Fave
Well, since the fruit is, is hybridized or domesticated or whatever, the thing is, it’s not natural anymore, so therefore we shouldn’t have it. It’s still, it’s still very much a natural product. It’s that we’ve just modified it and rightfully so. Like any intelligent civilization, organism is going to try to create a set up or an environment, manipulate the environment to optimize the food supply, and to make sure that they have enough nutrient, which includes macronutrients like carbohydrates, on a regular basis.

Mike Fave
It’s just you don’t want to do it at the expense of your health. And I don’t think a good case has been made that taking your like, really seed full banana that has no carbohydrates and having a regular banana has drastically sacrificed health properties for people. And now I have studies here that we can go through very briefly to.

Ethan Wright
Look at this. Yeah, I mean, there’s studies, there’s plenty of studies showing, countless, you know, points about markers of health improving with fruit and fruit juice consumption and all in this kind of stuff. Right? So, like, I don’t think they’re using ancestral bananas in these studies or whatever.

Mike Fave
The house is definitely not using ancestral bananas. And then the other thing too, is this idea that the blended smoothies is such a terrible thing that a mixing versus like, yeah, that’s not even true. Yeah, it’s not even true. Like, we can I can say that’s very specifically because we can look here, we have a study here.

Mike Fave
This is from 2022. Postprandial glycemic response to whole fruit versus blended fruit in healthy young adults. So they say well increased intake of dietary fiber is known to reduce postprandial glycemic responses. It is less understood whether the whether the disruption of dietary fiber in a blender alters the postprandial immune response, they said. We compared the postprandial glycemic response in 20 young, healthy college students after consuming whole fruit versus blended fruit.

Mike Fave
The fruit included, God forbid, a gala apple with the seeds removed and blackberries we used. So then basically what they showed here is they say here are,

Mike Fave
They say we use a repeated measure. So they use this statistical analysis, a two way Anova with retreatment as within subjects, yada yada. So glucose and maximally glucose area under the curve. So the glucose levels and glucose curves were significantly lower in the blended fruit group compared to the whole fruit group. And 60 minute glucose was marginally significantly lower for the blended fruit compared to the whole fruit.

Mike Fave
Sex is not a significant man effect, so the like, whether you’re male or female, didn’t change it. And so basically what they’re saying here is that the blended fruit, the smoothie group actually did better, actually did significantly better in terms of their their glucose area under the curve in glucose levels than the whole fruit group. So it’s like, where are they?

Mike Fave
Where are you getting this? Like, this took me literally five seconds to pull up on PubMed and find this study to support this perspective. So just to see like, okay, maybe they have something there, maybe there is a difference. Sounds like you pull this up and like oh is it is it. Does that happen for some fruits. Does it happen for all fruits like and we’re really not we’re really not at least here we’re not saying that seeing that play out.

Mike Fave
And again this is for this is for an apple then and even as another example here, and I guess before I jump in, I’ll even I don’t know if you want to say anything specific about it.

Ethan Wright
No. Continue. Just another case in which the glucose goddess is kind of caught red handed here. Not really sure you think that studies, right?

Mike Fave
Yeah. I mean, if you’re going to come out and say something like, fine, like have a platform to discuss things, but at least like before you go out, be secure or like have some, some backup for what you’re saying, because, you know, I could be considering something maybe some other fruits, if you blend them, have a different response versus ones that if you eat them whole like that’s, that’s, that’s that’s a potential case for it.

Mike Fave
If it even matters in the overarching context of things, which I think is where you’re going to go there.

Ethan Wright
Yeah. Yeah. The I think there was one with Gary Baraka where he kind of got caught doing the same thing, like saying the same. If you blend the banana, it’s way worse for your like, like Mac Index than it is if you just ate the banana oil and then I think it was Layne Norton, you did a video just that easily found that that was simply not the case.

Ethan Wright
It was actually the opposite again. So yeah.

Mike Fave
Yeah. I mean even here they so this is another one where they just took the polyphenol like so this study is apple and blackcurrant. Polyphenol rich drinks decrease postprandial glucose insulin. And in response to a high carb meal in healthy men and women. So this is a clinical trial. This is a randomized controlled double blinded crossover trial. It’s like a pretty high quality trial.

Mike Fave
This was done in 2017. And basically what they did was they just added the polyphenol like rich extracts from apples and blackcurrants, and they added those into meals that were either, starch containing or sucrose containing. And then basically what they found is they say incremental areas under the curve for plot. So plasma glucose levels concentrations were lower following the apple extract and blackcurrant extract over 0 to 30 minutes and 0 to 1 20 minutes compared to controls.

Mike Fave
So the group that just got the sucrose or starches, like just purified sugars or starches, actually had worse outcomes than if you gave them the polyphenol rich components. Now, why is this important? Because it’s like, well, you know, orange juice and Coke are the same thing. It’s like orange juice is very rich in polyphenol components. So it’s like they’re not the same thing.

Mike Fave
So to even like, like where the research is making it very clear, like please read the research like I’m telling, I’m showing the study like this is for glucose. God is specifically like the the polyphenol compounds make a difference in the, the, the gut derived hormones. So they even looked at things like GIP and and then GLP want our GLP one like, things like this to see what their effects were.

Mike Fave
And they see that. And also looking at insulin C peptide IP were significantly reduced relative to control. So basically what they’re showing here is that the polyphenol compounds have hormonal effects and they improve blood glucose utilization. And like so say you’re having a whole fruit right. And so or say you’re having a smoothie, God forbid a smoothie or say you’re having some juice, it’s going to have a drastically different response than just having pure sucrose in a Coke or just having like, straight up white rice or something like this.

Mike Fave
And then if we come here, if we come in to this next spot here, these are a meta analysis 100% fruit juice and measure glucose control and insulin sensitivity a systematic review and meta analysis of randomized controlled trials, they say. Compared with the control group, 100% fruit juice had no significant effect on fasting blood glucose, fasting blood insulin, heme or hemoglobin A1.

Mike Fave
C results from stratify analysis. And univariate meta regressions also largely showed no significant association between 100% fruit juice and measure glucose control. Overall, findings from this analysis of randomized controlled trials suggest a neutral fact of 100% fruit juice on glycemic control. These findings are consistent with findings from some observational studies suggesting that consumption of 100% fruit juice is not associated with increased risk of diabetes, so this is one.

Mike Fave
So a systematic review and meta analysis. And here’s another one here. Effect of fruit on glucose control and diabetes mellitus A meta analysis of 19 randomized controlled trials. And they say 19 randomized controlled trials with 880 participants were included. Fruit consumption significantly decreased the fasting blood glucose concentration, but it showed no significant difference on hemoglobin A1. C subgroup analysis for this just said, the consumption of both fresh and dried fruit decreased fast, fasting blood glucose concentration.

Mike Fave
They say increasing fruit intake reduced fasting blood glucose concentration. Therefore, we recommend that patients with diabetes eat more fruits while ensuring their total energy intake remains unchanged. And then another one Association between fruit intake and risk of diabetes in the US type cohort. And I say this population, 7675 Australians had a mean age of 54 years. Total fruit intake was inversely associated with serum insulin and in homa A2.

Ethan Wright

Percent

Mike Fave
Beta. So this is like an indicator, a metric or an index of insulin resistance and possibly associated with whole percent to as a baseline compared to participants with the lowest intakes. So quartile one participants in moderate fruit intake, quartile three had 36% lower odds of having diabetes at five years. After adjusting for dietary and lifestyle confounders, association with 12 year outcomes were not statistically significant.

Mike Fave
So basically what we’re seeing here is fruit juices, fruits, all of them. Like if anything, they’re at the minimum neutral and at the maximum actually having a benefit inside the research for people with diabetes, without diabetes and with metabolic dysfunction and a function on their ability to actually use carbohydrate. So it’s like, I think we can stop at this point, but, oh, you better not have your fruit blended up in a smoothie.

Mike Fave
God forbid you have a little bit of OJ in the morning or whatever the deal is like. I think we can stop with that. I think it’s pretty clear that at the minimum, the fruit is is neutral, and at the maximum there may be some benefits. And, you know, if you are a type two diabetic with blood glucose, this regulation, should you plow a quart of orange juice right now?

Mike Fave
Probably not. It probably would be better for you to do like you can have a smoothie, but you whole fruit blend it up with like coconut water or something like this, or have whole fruits in general. Or maybe you tolerate the some starch is better. Maybe that’s sweet potatoes. Maybe that’s that’s yams. Maybe that’s white potatoes, or maybe that’s oats.

Mike Fave
Maybe you do a little better with a little bit of legumes or something like this than you do with like, I’m just going to plow, orange juice all day long. Like, sure you may. That that is definitely a reality. But to say that, like normal people or even people who have, like, mild metabolic impairment are going to get significantly worse, having fruits or smoothies, I think is like, I don’t see the support for that in the research, nor have they these people who are making these claims cited anything to show this is just these erroneous arguments around, well, it’s unnatural because we domesticated or hybridized it.

Mike Fave
So it’s like like, okay, show some outcomes in people like let’s see the outcomes. And then it’s like we see them.

Ethan Wright
Right? And even if you see the like we’re using the frame of the glycemic index. Bitwise mechanics is only useful right. If someone is dealing with blood sugar issues and something spikes a really high. But like is it even worth considering the initial spike if it just drops back down to baseline like thereafter? Like whether it’s a banana that’s blended goes a little bit higher, and then a banana that you eat all.

Ethan Wright
But either way, they both kind of come down like you’re not really doing anything bad if your blood glucose goes a little bit higher. Right?

Mike Fave
I think that for when somebody is somebody is like really has significant metabolic dysfunction in the beginning, it’s probably better to shift towards sources that don’t give you super massive spikes. Like if you’re if you’re a dive, if you’re a type two diabetic, ideally you’re trying to get your postprandial blood glucose spikes at least less than 150.

Mike Fave
That would be like an ideal target. And then your fasting, obviously, for even normal people, fasting is less than 100. But I mean ideally 90 years over the last little bit less than that. So you’re if you can set up the diet in a way that does that, then I would shoot to do that. As you’re losing the weight and as you lose weight, as you take off the body fat percentage, then you’ll find a lot of times where I see with clients that they start to tolerate things that they didn’t tolerate before.

Mike Fave
So maybe in the beginning of banana, maybe not so great. If you have a banana, maybe you do a half a banana and you mix that with some blueberries and you put that in a shake with some water. And then on top of that, with the meal you have, maybe like you’re having some eggs with that and then, you know, something like this, like you’re also combining all the things together.

Mike Fave
So there is something that the Google Goddess does get right. And it’s that when you combine the protein, the carbohydrate, the fiber and the fats together, it does improve blood glucose curves. So in that circumstance, like, yes, like have your carbs present inside the context of the meal and then have evenly spaced meals across the day. And then just try to figure out which carb sources you tolerate best, and make sure that your overall energy intake and dietary setup is set up in a way that, number one, protein’s high enough so you maintain your muscle mass.

Mike Fave
And then number two, that you’re in enough of an energetic deficit, you could take off some of the extra body fat, because that high levels of body fat are constantly leaking inflammatory mediators and free fatty acids into the bloodstream. And that’s creating this issues across all of the other tissues. Cause when the muscle tissue and the livers and in the fat tissue or it’s mostly the muscle, the liver starts to get loaded up with fats, then it starts to compare their insulin signaling.

Mike Fave
You get partially oxidized fatty acid products and stuff like this. So you need to take that body fat percentage off and you need to increase muscle mass. And then you find them starting to tolerate things and then talk. Before I had clients who we started out like OJ was the no deal, no bueno because blood sugars were high.

Mike Fave
So like, okay, fine. Like use the whole foods instead. Make sure you’re eating enough protein. We set up the diet appropriately so that they’re losing weight. They lose like, you know, ten kilos, 20 kilos, something like this, which is 20 to 20 to 40 pounds. And then what winds up happening is like, bam, all of a sudden, oh, I can do a bit of OJ here and there, I can tolerate this, I can tolerate that.

Mike Fave
My blood glucose levels are much more stable. And things drastically improved. So this is there’s a timeline as well, because it’s not just that carbs are inherently bad, but if you have if your cells, your engine of your cells, your mitochondria or the cell itself is not functioning appropriately, and then you inject nitrous, which is it either like just straight up, like rapidly digesting carbohydrate into the system and the system’s already overloaded.

Mike Fave
The engine’s already flooded. You can create problems. You want to start with something that’s a little bit more, a little bit easier to tolerate. On the flip side, if you’re an athlete like you’re probably not going to load up on potatoes because you’re going to be able to eat enough potatoes by itself to actually hit a carb target or an energy target.

Mike Fave
So there’s different spectrums, there’s different contexts. And that’s where things become really important to know that person’s context and then make decisions instead of coming out, which we’ll see in a second with a low carb doc where all carbs are terrible. It’s like, okay.

Ethan Wright
Yeah, I really want to get to the low carb crap. This is what I’ve been waiting for the whole podcast. But yeah, to your point, to like you. So you’re saying that is kind of a multifaceted approach that you’re taking when someone’s coming with like a lot of metabolic dysfunction and maybe overweight. So you’re in the caloric deficit so that you’re you’re losing the way, but you’re simultaneously structuring the diet appropriately to get the best response to blood sugar and not adding the fats, the fiber, the protein with the carbohydrates, and then making sure that those foods also contain, like the necessary nutrients like potassium and magnesium and stuff like that to assist the glucose

Ethan Wright
from being oxidized. In a cell, in the mitochondria.

Mike Fave
Actually, yeah, we’re trying to make sure that and we’ll get to this because we have a question from someone in the community. So we’ll talk about it in the question. But how we structure the diet to manage the blood glucose response. And then what it’s it’s a combination of diet supplementation in movement exercise and looking at what’s going on with hormones and things like this, like looking at all of this together to have the outcome instead of going all in on like, well, the only thing that I’m going to throw my chips on is I just don’t have carbs.

Mike Fave
Instead of like, well, we have all of these modalities that we can use. It’s like you’re really going to just like all everything’s on black, like you’re betting everything on black. You don’t want to take like, a multifaceted approach. You want to put your chips all in. Well, if I just eliminate carbs, like, that’s it. It’s like, well, there’s way more that you can do than just that.

Ethan Wright
And that’s why when people are on the call with me, obviously I don’t give direct health advice or anything like that, but they speak to me before they get to you and they’re asking me, what do I eat? And all this stuff. It’s like, there’s so many things to consider before you decide what to like. Between the total amount of calories, the ratio of the calories, what foods to include, to make up those calories is all going to be dependent on, like what context you’re coming from your metabolic function, the hormonal status, like all this kind of stuff.

Ethan Wright
So I think with other dietary strategies that people come from, particularly the low carb stuff, it’s a very simplistic view where I just remove the challenge, which is I’m having trouble oxidizing glucose, I’m insulin resistance, so I’m just going to remove this thing. And initially I’ll see these improvements. Right. And then that as you go down the road is like okay does not work anymore.

Ethan Wright
Now carnivore, until you’ve run out like the one trick that you had was remove carbohydrates and now you’re at the end of the road and things still aren’t working. So you come to bioenergetics and it’s like the solution isn’t as simple as these previous diets that you were on beforehand. Or you could just remove one demonize, one macronutrient, which is a nutrient, and then you have to find out which ones are like, you have to meet yourself where you’re at, whatever hole you kind of dug yourself into.

Ethan Wright
Previously is going to require more, discernment for how you choose to go forward when you come to bioenergetics. So I hear, you know, a lot of people who are just like, what carbohydrates do I yeah, it’s like that’s going to take some time to figure out, okay.

Mike Fave
Yeah. It’s personal too, right. Because it’s like for both you and I like we weren’t doing well with super well with too much starches and I was more because of like for it’s like gut related but also like the sleepiness components was like doing better with sugars. And then as your stuff started to improve, like you do okay with a bit of starches now and then, like for me, I still don’t do super well as starches, so I lean more towards the fruits and sugars.

Mike Fave
But I have other clients who are doing mostly starches, do much better with starches, and they don’t do quite as well with the sugars. And like, that’s fine. You just you have to figure out what’s going to work for the individual. We can’t come out here and say that there’s one strategy for everybody in the sense of like, you know, everybody’s just eat this one food.

Mike Fave
It’s like, we need to figure out, we need to extract the principles for people and then and then help people to actually put those principles into their lives, not try to put the people into the principles and put them in this box and all of that boxes and work for you, then you’re just the problem. It’s like, no, maybe this.

Mike Fave
Maybe we need to like, it’s your box, and we’re trying to figure out how to make how to make that work within your context and your lifestyle. There’s the other thing too that’s really important is like, can you do this on a regular basis and sustainably across time? If you can’t do it sustainably across time, like, what do you this is what happens.

Mike Fave
So you gonna do you’re going to go on a diet for like two months, lose weight and then hop off it again and go back to where like maybe and wind up even worse because the way you did the diet wasn’t great. It’s like, that’s not really a great strategy, especially over the long term, especially if your goal is is health.

Mike Fave
Maybe for like your cut for a wedding or a summer, like, fine. But in terms of like preventing cardiovascular disease or, or, diabetes or cancer or any of these types of stuff, like it’s not really a long term strategy to be like, yeah, I was going to do this for a month. And it’s like, no, like we need to make sure that all of these foundational components are dialed into your context so you can maintain it over the long term sustainably, in your life, because it’s going to be different person to person.

Mike Fave
And we, you know, when you start working with people, I think this is part of the problem with some of the influencing spheres is like, if you don’t actually work with clients on a regular basis, then you don’t get to see just how individual things are. And then you kind of you can make gauge and you can gauge things based on your own context.

Mike Fave
And then you like for me, like if I went out and tried to make everybody run a similar set up that I’m running for myself like that would not work. I would fail as a practitioner because people are have vastly different responses. And when I first started out, I was just helping people for free and I started to see, oh well, this person, you really tolerate that?

Mike Fave
I did fine with this. It’s like, oh, so maybe they’re maybe there’s not a one size fits all.

Ethan Wright
Yeah. You have different like from men and women do. So yeah, it’s it’s a mixed bag of things. Yeah. Well let’s jump into, doctor Siwa’s and, Doctor.

Mike Fave
Yeah, yeah, this one’s the. This one is probably, like, the worst of all the clips today.

Dr Cywes
Change your way of thinking to look at the total carbohydrate content of what you’re putting in your face, whether it’s a drink or a food, not whether they tell you it’s healthy or not. If you’ve got a dog, do you eat your dog’s poop? Hell no. I don’t eat my dog’s poop. But what happens if I sprinkle some protein, sprinkle some minerals and vitamins on your dog’s poop, and give it a good smell and a good taste?

Dr Cywes
It’s still dog poop and I don’t care how you flavor it, I’m not eating it well, think of sugar in that way. And an apple is just pure sugar with a little bit of protein and fiber sprinkled on it. That doesn’t make it healthy. Additives do not make carbohydrates healthy.

Mike Fave
Oh man, this is.

Ethan Wright
So, so an apple is just dog poop with some vitamins minerals. Since I have sprinkled on it that the king gets in there.

Mike Fave
And he literally calls it additives too. It’s like, yeah, yeah, they’re not additives. They’re naturally occurring. It’s not an additive. Yeah, look at this. And it’s just it’s like a fake comparison. It’s like and what is similar between dog poop and an apple I don’t know, like there’s, like, how are we getting this. Like it. It’s literally this is not even an argument.

Mike Fave
It’s not even an argument. This the level of logic that goes on here is just it’s like, I can’t even I have nothing even to say about it. It’s just ridiculous. It’s just like the whole set up.

Ethan Wright
You think anyone’s watching that going. Yeah, that’s that’s a really good point.

Mike Fave
I don’t know, I don’t know, it’s just I think it just like creates a polarizing thing and it like creates a lot of tribalism around the diets and, and well.

Ethan Wright
It’s, it’s demonizing like the foods in the food groups, like, even when we watch the G clip and you and I, of course, in preparation for the podcast, I watched a quite a few G clips, unfortunately or fortunately, and I, like every single clip, has that eerie likes. Like, I don’t know if it’s a Snoop Dogg.

Ethan Wright
Like soundtrack in the background where it’s like you’re uncovering and revealing like this new information, like carbohydrates, like insulin and this and that. It’s like it just feeds into this whole, like, weirdness to the whole low carb, like, cultish vibe.

Mike Fave
Yeah. It’s just, I mean, we already saw the studies. Obviously the fruit consumption doesn’t have these negative effects even in the diabetic populations. Whether that’s whole fruit, which in this case it’s apples. And even apple extracts have a benefit. So you know, yeah, just like trying to create this perspective in people’s minds where it’s like, oh yeah, carbohydrates, even fruits, which people usually consider are healthy.

Mike Fave
It’s like, oh, they’re they’re equivalent to dog poop. It’s like, come on, man, like that. But let’s, let’s actually like, are we trying to get people better or are we trying to make improvements in people’s health? Are we trying to to like, you know, get to like, I guess, like smooth out paradoxes and try to understand what’s going on?

Mike Fave
Or are we just saying, like, all cars are bad, even fruit, it’s dog poop. Like, just think about it that way. It’s like, I don’t think that that’s I think like it. Maybe it keeps it easy for it makes it easy to just be like, all carbs are bad and we can avoid all carbs. But it’s fundamentally like, I don’t think that that’s the long term solution with this type of stuff.

Mike Fave
And I also think it’s an unfair characterization of carbohydrates, and it doesn’t really help us solve why people are having these problems. And I don’t think it’s because they’re eating too many apples. Yeah, this type of stuff. I think that these analogies, these mindsets are actually, in the long run, creating harm for people because what’s happening is people are then, you know, you if you go through a number of dietary spheres, what happens is you start with, maybe you start low carb.

Mike Fave
Wow. Oh, man. The carbs, like all carbs, they’re dog poop, so I can’t ever eat that. And then you get into carnivore. It’s like, oh, plant foods. Oh, they’re terrible. And you have problems and carnivore and you get put into this box mentally because all like, you can’t do all these things, you can only do these things, but the things you’re doing aren’t working.

Mike Fave
So it creates this place where like, well, what are my options now? And and that’s where people get stuck into this. Well you go on to read it and it’s like, well add more beef tallow. You just need more fat. Like you just need more salt. You just need to take more element, like that’s what you need. And then it’s like but then they’re they’re all already doing that.

Mike Fave
And it’s like, well not getting better. And it’s like that’s why I think like people like Paul’s Animal base stuff was so, like like bothers so many people, like so many people are like, like going after Paul with this because he was carnivore and and he shifted because it like, creates this doorway for people to be like, well, maybe the carbs aren’t that bad, or maybe I can actually have some plant foods that I tolerate and it eliminates like, that’s where you get into this next step where you’re thinking is less horizontal in the sense of world keto than it’s carnivore, or vegan or plant based, or calories in, calories out if it fit

Mike Fave
your macros. Like just like hopping diet to diet and starting to like move into a vertical fashion and start to say, well, maybe if I thought about this a little differently, instead of saying like looking for a singular boogie man and then going black and white on it, maybe there’s like these shades of gray on the circumstance of like, well, maybe I tolerate some carbs, maybe I don’t tolerate other carbs, maybe I can keep the protein and stuff that worked well for me, and then add these other things in and then build out the diet from there.

Mike Fave
And then that’s where I think you start to you start to make progress. For me, that was a huge shift. It was it was well, I did all these diets and not one of them like solved the problem. So but there are some things in each diet that was helpful. So I remember when I was like, what if I just took the things that were helpful in each one of these diets and kind of combine them together in this hodgepodge type of strategy?

Mike Fave
And then I started to then then I did that. I was like, oh, I’m, you know, I’m feeling quite a bit better. And then from there I started to try to see, like, well, what are the principles that I can extract out and then create a system around it and then, and then run that, and then that’s then I did that and it’s like, well, you know, I’m able to actually manage my health pretty, pretty well here.

Mike Fave
And then you start to see like, oh, you can apply this system to other people. You can apply these principles, not the same exact diet, but the principles, and just get to the point of what do we need to do right now to help you to get your health better? If I do, I feel good at this. Okay, I do, do I?

Mike Fave
Maybe I have some stress in them, at least not good. And I’m not losing weight, but it’s not great. So maybe bump some things up a little bit and then kind of I’d make adjustments. Not like this. These like these fine tuning adjustments instead of like, well this keto stuff doesn’t work. So milk in orange juice and ice cream here I come.

Mike Fave
It’s like, let’s just take like one one step at a time and figure out what works for your context instead of this tribalism stuff.

Ethan Wright
And even just realizing, like one of those like, macronutrients are a thing too, as well as micronutrients. Like you hear people in the low carb sphere all the time talk about nutrient density. And what they’re normally talking about is micronutrients, vitamins and minerals and things like this. But they’re completely okay with saying this macronutrient or carbohydrate is not necessary.

Ethan Wright
Or it’s like not essential is like the argument for a lot of them do. Right. And it’s to the diabetes and and managing blood sugar and insulin resistance and metabolic function and all this kind of stuff too. Wasn’t there the like, Kepner guy, you’d had the rice diet or in there you can find, like, papers from a long time ago where people were, curing insulin resistance with, like, table sugar.

Ethan Wright
Not, I don’t think, the rice diet or the table sugar is probably the way to go at all, but it just does solidify the point that these things are like macronutrients. Right. And so yeah.

Mike Fave
It’s basically there’s you could find research studies seeing improvements in all types of metrics. Like you can go find papers and oats, improving blood glucose values and hemoglobin A1, C and stuff like this. So the question is not does keto work or does this low fat stuff work? Or does the rice diet work? To some extent, that’s not even the question.

Mike Fave
The fundamental question is what is the diet that you need that that is effective for you, that you will use like diet, lifestyle, supplementation regimen, whatever the thing is that gets you your outcomes and you can sustain over the long term. I don’t really for me, I don’t care about keto, carnivore, bioenergetics, Kempner, whoever. It doesn’t matter. It’s like, what is the actual principle and components that move the needle and is effective for that person so that they are seeing their outcomes at the end of the day.

Mike Fave
And what do I need to do to make adjustments to help them get there? You want to lose 50 pounds? What do we have to do to get that without trashing your metabolism? And while we maintain your lean body mass, if you want to improve your blood glucose values, what do we need to do to get there? And what are all the tools that we have not?

Mike Fave
Well, I’m a keto advocate, so I just do keto stuff only. It’s like, what is it that we actually need to do? And then also the idea of like essential or non-essential, who cares? It’s what is optimal, what is going to drive the best benefit over the long term for for somebody within reason so that we can live, a better life in general with our health and like, living to a long term without getting these serious health problems.

Mike Fave
Like, what does that take? It’s not. I can never eat this thing again. I can only eat the like most 100% grass fed me. And the cows have to be, like, treated with like, the utmost care. Like they get like, shiatsu massages every day. Like it’s like we don’t have to do all that is like. Like, let’s try to let’s try to figure out what’s going to be reasonable for that person.

Mike Fave
Context. Some people are like, look, I want to I want to like be on all the time. It’s like, okay, you want to like, take it to the next level, then we can do that. So like it’s person dependent. But I think most people I’m working with is like common sense stuff and applicable stuff for like an everyday average person.

Mike Fave
And how do I get the outcomes of that. And that’s diet lifestyle adjustments, some supplementation, maybe there’s some stuff off of hormones. And then in addressing that on the individual basis.

Ethan Wright
And with the people that I talk to like it seems to be the route that they take to manage some sort of metabolic dysfunction or blood sugar issues is if you go to the doctor, it’s GLP one agonists and metformin, and that’s kind of like the route you’re steer towards there. And then if you try to go to this alternative, health perspective, you usually have to make it through low carb and restrictive dieting and intermittent fasting before you land on bioenergetics.

Ethan Wright
So it’s like those are the two paths men. Correct me if I’m wrong, but both of those are moving in the opposite direction of solving the root of the issue, right? Yep. So so I mean, yeah, I mean, like I talked to another person and they were saying, like I added in carbohydrates when I came to bioenergetics and I feel like so much better, my energy’s better and everything.

Ethan Wright
But I stopped doing my blood juice, blood glucose reading in the morning because it was too high. And it was making me feel, you know, like bad about, about what I was doing, even though I’m getting all these other benefits and what he was wondering is like, how can I include carbohydrates in, in my diet and get all these benefits while also improving this, this metric and in metabolic function and all this kind of I mean, you can but it takes like, nuanced approach, which obviously you touched on earlier, but yeah.

Mike Fave
Yeah, yeah. And it’s the thing is, is context for everybody here. So you’re doing this, you’re doing the discovery calls for us. Like when people sign up, if they want to work with the unit or, you know, join the community or whatever, they hop on a discovery call with Ethan, and then Ethan, you like, you listen to what they have going on, like their context, and we try to figure out, like, what’s what’s the you know, what, the community course, like the program work.

Mike Fave
Or whether.

Ethan Wright
There’s something we feel like can help them.

Mike Fave
Yeah. Or do you want to move towards like you need like, more 1 to 1 assistance and stuff like that. So and that’s, that’s where you’re talking to people. So you’re, you’re getting to talk to people there and like people are asking you these questions. And so basically to answer your the, the question that you got from the gentleman you spoke with, it’s like you just need to play around, I think with the macros set up with the diet and then the types of carbs you’re using.

Mike Fave
And I think you’ll find that if you get those right, you can still carbs and board, you can still feel well, and you’ll see those blood glucose numbers come down as fasting blood does not come down. And if you’re coming from a lower car background or keto background, a carnivore or something like this, those numbers will also come down over time.

Mike Fave
It may take like a week or two weeks, and also depends on what you’re doing with your diet. But once you get it in right, you’ll see that come down pretty quickly. I see that come down very quickly, especially in people who aren’t type two diabetic. I see those numbers come down very fast.

Ethan Wright
Yeah, and that’s a perfect segue into the question that we have from the community.

Mike Fave
So this question comes out of the private community that that I have that we have that Ethan’s a part of as well. And one of the members in the community asks, I would like to know how to use food and exercise to manage blood sugars. I try the GLP one options and it really traded one problem for another.

Mike Fave
Metformin was my only tool and now that bothers my gut. When I tried carnivore, my blood sugars were way better, but eating that way was not sustainable. Now I have pro metabolic eating and exercise is my only options. My question is how to get a handle on getting my blood sugar in a healthy range, defining that healthy range foods, timing ratios, etc. and how exercise plays a role.

Mike Fave
So really, how can I restore my blood sugars to be normal versus high? Is it possible? So it’s a great question. And we picked this specific question because it also ties with all the stuff that we were talking about today, all the clips and everything we’re talking about today. First question is how to get a handle on blood sugar in a healthy range and then defining that healthy range, foods timing ratio, etc. on how how exercise plays a role.

Mike Fave
So let’s define the ranges. First I’m going to talk about what to do. So fasting blood glucose. You want to be less than at least than 100. Like at least less than a hundred postprandial blood glucose. Try to get at less than 150 if like if you’re a type two diabetic, your normal person at least less than 140.

Mike Fave
You don’t have the metabolic dysfunction you should shouldn’t be going over now. Different foods will change that. If you smash sushi rice like like 100g of glucose from sushi rice, are you gonna get a spike? Yeah, probably. Probably gonna get a spike just because of glucose. Like straight, straight glucose like mainlining. You might as well be injecting it.

Mike Fave
If you’re having it like, like potatoes in the context of a meal. So it’s based on potatoes and cooked squash or carrot, maybe, bit of blueberries in the side and then a nice rib eye or something like this. Like you’re probably not going to get a super high spike very quick with those because it’s going to take the, the the protein in the fat is going to slow that gastric emptying.

Mike Fave
You’re gonna have satiety. It’s going to force you to eat a little bit slower. You’re going to have to find all compounds. You’re gonna have the vitamins. Minerals are gonna have the fiber. So all of that’s going to change in response versus like, you wake up and just like smash rice very fast in a large amount. So the foods will obviously change that.

Mike Fave
Now, speaking of which, the next question was, what’s the deal with foods, timings, ratio, etc.. So we’ll talk about this first. So with foods timing, food timing and ratios macros and calories. So first if you have metabolic dysfunction, there’s a good chance that you probably have a higher body fat percentage than you like. And also or potentially there’s body there’s a buildup of fat inside the liver.

Mike Fave
If that is the case. The goal is to lower that. So you’re probably going to want to set up your total energy intake in a slight deficit, depending on where you’re at, probably somewhere around 20%. And then from there you want to get your macros right. So those a calorie deficit around 20%. That’s not a level that’s going to be super stressful.

Mike Fave
And you’ll see your markers improve pretty significantly, as you slowly lose the weight. Maybe you know, about a half pound pound per week, something like this. Then you’re gonna get your protein right. You want protein higher. So I use a 2.82g per pound if you are a lean person. If you’re dealing with obesity or a higher body fat percentage, then I’m looking at one gram per pound only body mass.

Mike Fave
The definition cut off 26% for man if your body percentage higher, 26% for men and women greater than 39%, then from there you’re going to figure out your carbon take for women lowest threshold goals like one 2130 per day. Man is like 150. And that’s basically the amount that your brain uses uses carbohydrates. On a regular basis, you don’t have to drive through gluconeogenesis.

Mike Fave
So and then from there you can you’ll have to adjust your, your carbs up or down, you know, are usually up based on your caloric target and also in ratio in amounts with your fat and fat. I usually shoot for about 25% of calories, less than about 30%. You see increases in some sensitivity because you’re using mostly carbohydrate, so you can be 20 to 30%.

Mike Fave
I usually start at 25 and I’m just massaging carbon fat and takes the hit whatever the caloric target is. And protein is always same thing. So those are that’s the macros. Next thing is getting your meal stuff under control. You want to have all the components in the meal protein, carbs, fat, fiber, the polyphenol compounds everything in a meal, and you want to have your meals evenly spread across the day, about 3 to 4 hours apart, so that will get things situated.

Mike Fave
Then you have to figure out your food sources. Do you tolerate, starches, sugars, whole fruits, tubers, oats, whatever the components figure out your mix. Your fuel mix. You know, that’s extremely important. And then construct the diet out of that. And then, from there, then you can start to make sure you’re covering your micronutrients with different specific foods and supplements and stuff like this.

Mike Fave
Now, I cover this all in depth, step by step, the calories and macros I talk about inside the Nutrition Blueprint on my website and in the course that I built out, covers this in depth. And I’m making videos now to cover, like what lab tests to get and the, you know, how to troubleshoot different components with thyroid and, female hormones, male hormones, God stuff, etc. is also in there.

Mike Fave
And then there’s the I do Q&A every single day. So I’m walking through this inside the course as well. But this is what I’m doing in that process. I’m doing these these specific components with people, helping them set it up to their specific context and then basically running from there. So that’s the foods timing and ratios that we kind of talked about.

Mike Fave
I just went through them. And then the last one is exercise. So what am I doing with exercise. I think people just if they won’t lift they’re like, look my I’m not going to the gym, I’m not lifting, I’m not doing any of that stuff. And then say, what would you do a band workout at home? No. Okay.

Mike Fave
Can you go for a walk? I could do a walk. That’s fine. I get I can do all. So then I have them do walks. You can walk after meals for like ten minutes. You know, 50 minutes. It don’t have to be like, you don’t have to, like, power. Walk with a rock on. You don’t have to do anything like that.

Mike Fave
You could just go for like, a normal walk. That’ll help improve your blood response. And if the walking improves circulation, you want to get some of that activity in. Because tourism is a huge issue as well as like, you know, ultra processed food consumption, not getting the diet stuff right in general. So walks good. Ideally, I would say resistance training.

Mike Fave
The more muscle mass you have, the more the higher metabolic rate you have, the more insulin sensitivity you will have on average, and the better metabolic outcomes you’ll have your muscle, like having a higher muscle mass. Extremely important for women, postmenopausal women, exceptionally important to maintain muscle mass and bone mass as you age. One of the number one things that’s, that’s, creating, health problems or even death in people when they get older is falling and breaking hips and then going to the hospital getting pneumonia or C diff or whatever the deal is.

Mike Fave
So maintaining muscle strength, muscle mass, bone loss, preventing age related sarcopenia, which is muscle loss extremely important. And this doesn’t have to be like, I’m going to go in the gym and I’m going to powerlifting, like, listen to metal and put my headphones on or whatever. It’s just you can go in the gym like Planet Fitness if you want.

Mike Fave
And I don’t have affiliation with the gym, like whatever gym you want, whatever YMCA crunch, whoever it is, I like fitness. They have machine circuits in there. You can literally go in and just do the machine circuit, and then you have to get enough volume per muscle like sets per muscle group per week. So it’s between probably like most people are going to start in the lower side.

Mike Fave
But 6 to 10 sets per week, 6 to 12 sets per week per muscle group. So pecs lats, biceps, triceps, quads, hamstrings, blues, calves those are the major muscle groups you’re going to get. Start doing those. Go do make sure getting like six sets of those weeks, that’s literally a workout three times a week for 40 minutes. Go on machines.

Mike Fave
You literally could sit down the whole workout and then rest the minute between sets. That is more than enough to have a benefit for muscle mass and insulin sensitivity performance. Maintain bone mass as long as you’re listening to a heavy enough capacity. So these are things these are things that I’m doing with people setting these common sense things up.

Mike Fave
And that’s what moves the needle. I have people losing. I have people, multiple people lose over 100 pounds while maintaining, if not gaining lean mass doing this diet, setting a diet of appropriately covered MC, covering micronutrients and then lifting. And then if they have specific other issues, we get that under control. It’s it. Those are the foundational core components that move the needle for people.

Mike Fave
So you get that under control, and then you can maintain that over the long term. And that’s really what it takes. There’s a bunch of SOPs and stuff, but those usually move the needle not as much of the as this. Those are like that’s the icing. The cherry on top, the sprinkles on the ice cream. It’s not the full meal beforehand.

Mike Fave
That’s the the sleep, the stress, the diet, the movement. Those are the most important pieces. Those are the most foundational pieces. And then you can talk about SOPs. And then also the more specifics if there’s gut issues or hormonal problems, etc..

Ethan Wright
Yeah, I think people are normally pretty surprised. At least I was two when I was trying to solve my own issues with how much of a lever you can pull by just setting up the dietary foundation alone. And what that can accomplish, especially if you’re, like, really consistent with it. Yeah. And whatnot. But I want to ask, so if someone comes to you, like diabetic, right.

Ethan Wright
And then let’s say they were doing like low carb or whatever and, they’re type two diabetic, like that’s what they’re fasting. Blood glucose is showing typically if they’re implementing all these different strategies that you just laid out, what is the timeline to where they can start seeing improvements in the blood glucose? Like what should they be expecting?

Ethan Wright
Is this a six month process or should they see like improvements in the first couple weeks and give me an idea.

Mike Fave
They’re going to see improved, like within the first like 1 to 2 weeks. You start to see things to each. Yeah. You should see. And again this is why I’m saying, like when I’m working with somebody, I’m gauging an outcome. When I see that we do a first call together, like you set up the diet, we set up the diet, all this type of stuff right by the next week or the week after.

Mike Fave
If you’ve been on the diet and you’ve been following through and you haven’t been losing 1 pound per week or a half pound per week or something like we’re not seeing after two weeks that trend down and you’re not feeling better. Whatever the deal is, we’re adjusting immediately because it’s you should see it. You should see the weight start to come off.

Mike Fave
You should see like if they’re having digestive issues, I minimize foods. I would be problematic. But you make it. It’s not even hard to implement the diets. We make sure that’s implementable, like, you know, say you have a really busy morning and we set up a sheet, take five minutes, make you you do it the night before, put it in the fridge, blend it up when you come out in the morning and you hit the road, go to work.

Mike Fave
So it’s like we try to remove all barriers of things. That’s like, oh well, I can’t do it because of X, Y and Z. And if you’re falling through, you should see results pretty quickly. You should see results like within a couple of weeks. And if even if it’s you start to see fasting blood glucose starts to get a little bit better, postprandial blood, you start to get a little bit better.

Mike Fave
Energy improves a little bit, maybe the weight starting to come down appropriately. Like, if those things aren’t happening, you say you’re on this for like, three weeks now, none of that has happened. Like then something needs like serious needs to change. So you should see it quick. Well, now say you want to lose 100 pounds. Is that going to happen in one month?

Mike Fave
No, it’s going to. That’s going to take a couple months. But you should be seeing weight loss across that whole time frame. There shouldn’t be this like well you have to wait like four years until all your poop was depleted and you get a result like that is not that’s that’s gaslighting. That should that’s not how this should run.

Mike Fave
And and I’m not even implying that doctor had said that. But that’s something that gets thrown even inside the bioenergetics. You’re like, you need to wait four years before you, before your poo was depleted and you get any results. It’s like, no, like you should be getting results in the time frame of that four years that you are decreasing the total amount of poop on your body stores and not relying on that as the outcome like you should be able like I’ve had clients within a couple of months, within 6 or 7 months lose massive amounts of weight 50, 60, 70, 80, 100 pounds, and the biggest difference is just how consistent can that person

Mike Fave
be and falling through. That’s it. Once we. Because once you set it up, the person falls through. You see the result. If you don’t get the result that you want, maybe it’s 80% there. You time, you make a change. So you keep all works and you shift what’s not working. And you keep doing that. And eventually you find the spot where it’s a nice little Goldilocks zone, but the person is losing their way.

Mike Fave
They feel good, their symptoms are improved, their diets working for them, they can implement it. And then it’s like now you’re in the coast phase. It’s like this nice. Like just continue with what you’re doing and we’ll make much more fine tuned small adjustments. We don’t have to change so much things anymore. And then you then you also get to like if it’s a weight loss and you need to get back to maintenance when it’s done.

Mike Fave
So you don’t want to be in a deficit forever, obviously. So you get to your target weight and you come out, you come out of the device, and you also are adjusting the deficit because as you get leaner, it gets a little bit harder to maintain because you’re your it’s like as your body fat percentage drops, your body starts to realize that the bank account is getting low.

Mike Fave
Now, some things initially improve, of course, especially if you have a lot of body fat. But if you already like like for me, I’m pretty lean already. If I start to lose more bodies, I feel terrible because I’m already at the edge, like the bank account is already is already almost at zero. And so the like. I’m getting notices that like the yearly fees are coming in because I’m not maintaining that balance.

Ethan Wright
You’ve obviously worked with a lot of people that are coming from the different dietary spheres, like, low carb, and bioenergetics, something that I hear a lot from the bioenergetics crowd is I added in carbs, my diets, you know, organize this in that like. But I’m still not getting such and such results. Like, whether it’s the blood sugar or losing the weight and stuff.

Ethan Wright
So is there like maybe one, 2 or 3, like most common mistakes that you see people make when they come into bioenergetics and start adding in back carbs? Is it like giving too much fat on board, or like, what are the things that maybe somebody can start to think about today like, oh, maybe I am doing that and I can start to adjust these things.

Mike Fave
I think the, the biggest one is like just adding carbs in and not looking at your total caloric intake and fat. That’s the biggest one. And then so that’s number one. Number two is food sources. People are so restrictive and low carb, especially carnivore and keto stuff and the omad that when you like now, it’s like Pandora’s box is open and I can have ice cream and and I can have, juice and sugar in my coffee and all this type of stuff.

Mike Fave
And then people go buckwild with it, and then they’re not looking at their total intake, and then they cut, they’re gaining weight and they’re like, oh, it’s the carbs. It’s like I’ve had people. It’s like you’re in a like a 500 to 1000 calorie surplus a day because your fat is still the same and you just threw carbs on top.

Mike Fave
The other thing is, when you come out of these super restrictive paradigms, your appetite, especially if you’ve done it for a long time, it’s going to like be out of control. Like for me, it was uncontrollable when I came out of if and keto and then like the I guess the last one would be like having crap tons of dairy and maybe not doing super well with all the dairy.

Mike Fave
Those be the big three. There’s other things, but those are the big three. That’s like easy, easy troubleshooting right off the bat. When somebody is like, we need to get your calories and macros dialed in, we need to stop the honey and granulated sugar and endless amounts of maple sirup and like, use more reasonable carb sources. And we need to test your response to Dairy Bigsby immediately that I’m looking at for most people coming from those backgrounds.

Ethan Wright
And then if you’re not doing the dairy, you can supplement the calcium, because that’s still one of the principles that you include in the diet.

Mike Fave
Yeah, okay. Phosphorus is.

Ethan Wright
Important. Cool. I think we covered a lot there. There’s, a lot of things that people can look into after this podcast. And then, like I said in the beginning, we’re looking to do the podcast maybe once a week or something like this, and we want feedback from the audience and them to participate and have some say in what topics that we discuss.

Ethan Wright
So if there’s anything that you want to see us talk about here, please leave them in the comments. And with that said, we’ll see you maybe next week. Yeah. All right. Cool.